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stillstanding   stillstanding is offline 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:23 pm
 Post subject: Hannibal Book Review
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I just finished Hannibal after a week of devouring all 544 pages.

For the first 450 pages I think the book followed the movie pretty well. The movie left out some characters and obviously some details. The movie also addressed certain chapters differently but overall the movie was on line with the book. Then right when Hannibal gets captured by mason Verger outside of a grocery store things chage in a BIG WAY.

The whole scene in the Barn at the Verger estate was similiar to that in the movie. Margot Verger played a big roll in the book and ended up killing Mason and Cordell in the book. In the movie Cordell took over Margots role. I think it saved time and was useful for the film. Clarice got shot with a gun in the movie and in the book a couple darts.

When Hannibal carrys Clarice through the pigs and into her mustang it seems everything changed. Even the writing style and mind set of Thomas Harris in my opinion changed. I didnt even think I was reading the same book. In the last 70 or so pages the book Hannibal took a new direction I didnt see coming.

It seemed that in the movie and even in the other books Clarice was out to capture Lecter no matter what. And in the end of the movie she kept that same mentality even after he carried her off. But in the book it explains that Hannibal kept Clarice drugged for about a week and they talked about apparently everything. It should also be noted that Hannibal had plans of killing Clarice in order for his dead sister to take her place. I thought that was just carazy even for Hannibal. Luckily that idea never came to pass. Anyway, I thought Hannibal spying on and interegating Clarice for a week didnt seem like Hannibal to me, ,maybe Harris was trying to show his "monster" side. After that we read the famous labotomy scene in which Krendler becomes dinner. Afterwards no police arrrive and Lecter sucks on Clarices nipple at Clarices offer. Incase that seems strange you really have to read the book to undertstand.

Afterwards, 3 years later in the final chapters we read that Barney has gone off the bueno aries to see the worlds Vermeers and in the midst of this he ends up at a play. And at that play he sees Hannibal and Clarice. At which time he slee aries and goes somewhere else, rio i think. It goes on to say that Clarice was not drugged and we presume that she was having sex and living with Hannibal under her own will.

I thought the ending was so over the top I am still thinking about it. I can see why this ending never even made the screenplay let alone into a movie. I think the audience would have been wierded out by it as I was when first reading it.

In the end Hannibal goes down as the best Harris novel. Im just not sure about that ending. Im still debating whether I loved or hated the books ending? O well, Ill have to sleep on it.

What did you think of it?

-B


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Lectermate   Lectermate is offline 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:33 pm
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I love the book's end but I think that Thomas Harris first objective by writing an end like this was to satisfy the reader who waited impatiently that Hannibal and Clarice were finally together.

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I can see why this ending never even made the screenplay let alone into a movie. I think the audience would have been wierded out by it as I was when first reading it.

In an interview, Ridley Scott said about the end of the book that it was too fast, that it should have been another book before we saw Hannibal and Clarice together.

Scott thinks that Hannibal is in love with Clarice but she rather feels some kind of respect for him, that's why he decided to do another end for his film.

Ta ta.
Lectermate.


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Clariz   Clariz is offline 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:33 pm
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Lectermate wrote:

Scott thinks that Hannibal is in love with Clarice but she rather feels some kind of respect for him, that's why he decided to do another end for his film.Ta ta.
Lectermate.


That is what he said in the interview, but in real life, there was a big ado, between TH, Dino/Martha and Scott, whereupon TH didn't want to agree to the modified ending.
After they were locked for 5 days engaged in the argument. TH gave in, not without a feeling of disappointment.

What it odd here, is that the book was written with the foreknowledge that it will turn into a movie. When it was finished up and up until the production of the movie began it seemed clear that the book ending would prevail. Dino and Martha had approved it.

It always seemed as if they modified the ending to the movie with the idea of a sequel. Scott definitely had a sequel in mind. One wonders if he actually READ the book or just an abridgment.

There is no substantiation that might lead even remotely to believe that TH wrote the ending of the book to satisfy any fans. That would be soooooooo unlike TH...

C


"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:45 pm
 Post subject: Re: Hannibal Book Review
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stillstanding wrote:
I just finished Hannibal after a week of devouring all 544 pages.

Afterwards, 3 years later in the final chapters we read that Barney has gone off the bueno aries to see the worlds Vermeers and in the midst of this he ends up at a play. And at that play he sees Hannibal and Clarice. At which time he slee aries and goes somewhere else, rio i think. It goes on to say that Clarice was not drugged and we presume that she was having sex and living with Hannibal under her own will.


What did you think of it?

-B


Maybe you should read it again.
Maybe then bueno aries will turn into Buenos Aires, and the Play into an Opera, and if you read it slow, maybe the rest of the story fall into place.

Like Lecter said...keep an open mind.


"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."
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draconia   draconia is offline 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:37 pm
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I really do hate Ridley Scott for ruining the ending of Hannibal, but I suppose he catered more to the movie fans than the book fans. Grr at him anyway.

I was not surprised at all by the book ending and it was what I really wanted. I myself fell in love with Lecter four years ago and am still in love with him. Clarice had to have fallen for his charm, as well. They belong together. End of story Smiley


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stillstanding   stillstanding is offline 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:54 pm
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Firstly, Ill respond to the posts that comment on my spelling and reading ability. I did read the book slow and comprehended everything I read. I did not go back and sight pages before I wrote the review on here. I have poor grammer and Im not the type of person to go out of my way to spell somthing correctly if i dont have to. And yes it was a opera and not a play, my mistake. Once again I didnt go back and refer to pages while wiritng the review. Ive owned this copy of Hannibal since 2001 and I havent read it until now.

The ending in the book was bizarre and strange and I liked it a lot for those reasons. But that ending could have never made it onto the big screen. It would have freaked out audiences and probably would have got bashed even harder by critics. The movie, had it followed the book, would have to be over 3 hours so that we can have a mind set and we can understand the ending. In 2 hours the books ending on screen would look silly and stupid. I dont like the ending Ridley gave it either.

The main problem with hannibal the movie is it became a pointless horror film instead of a thought out psyhcological thriller, with about a billion wholes in the story. Had it kept exactly to the lines of the book it would have been genius, but im afraid some things cant be transfered to film just the way they were written.

<Side Note>In my brisk review I highlited the stranger points in the book and it may have sounded like I did not enjoy or understand them. When infact I understood and enjoyed them. After reading the first two books I had a mind set for what Hannibal would be like on the outside. And in the beginning of Hannibal the book he was described pretty much as i expected. But that ending just didnt fit for me. I thought at times it was silly and it didnt seem to fit the pattern of the previous 500 pages and the previous books. Ill probably read it again in the future. But for now Ill let it go, as the book advises.

B


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Clariz   Clariz is offline 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:29 am
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stillstanding wrote:
But that ending could have never made it onto the big screen. It would have freaked out audiences and probably would have got bashed even harder by critics. The movie, had it followed the book, would have to be over 3 hours so that we can have a mind set and we can understand the ending. In 2 hours the books ending on screen would look silly and stupid. I don't like the ending Ridley gave it either.

B


I have to disagree here, the book could have been adapted without losing integrity just by changing the end and shifting some priorities without making into a 3 hr movie, that is a poor excuse and doesn't cut it.

Regarding the audience bashing it because of the ending....better look at the bulletin boards of the time when the movie opened. More than 80% of the viewers [not the critics...THE VIEWERS!] expressed their disappointment BECAUSE of the changed ending.

The REAL ending couldn't have possible look as ridiculous and truncated as the one in the movie. In the movie there was no closure, there was not supposed to be any closure to leave the door open for a potential sequel, and everyone who had read the book first saw throught it and hated it. It was a betrayal to the integrity of the work....Not something the fans would easily forgive.
The folks who had read, then seen SOTL and waited for 10 years for the sequel, bought the book and read it no soon it was published. THEN when the movie came, they expected to view what they read, there was some kind of a need to see the enlivement of what they had read, and instead the got a commercial copeout.
Very bad stuff.

I'm not saying that the movie doesn't have a value AS A STANDALONE, but is definitely a misinterpretation of the base context of the book.

I can understand you taking your time to come to grips with it. But, like I said, read it again. Very slowly until you get a glimpse of what TH is trying to portray here.

C


"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."
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Melissa   Melissa is offline 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:42 pm
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I liked both endings.

The book gave me closure and satisfied the desire to see them together; the movie left it open for a sequel ... which is great as I'd love to see more of Hannibal and Clarice.

I win on both counts. Go me.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:32 am
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Temporary guy wrote:
I think Stillstanding meant that the non-book reading audience would have been 'freaked out'.

I think they would certainly have had difficulty suspending their disbelief. Personally, I think anyone would have difficulty with it unless their need to see Hannibal and Clarice together achieved it for them, or - as in my case - the acceptance of how big a part the drugs and implied hypnosis (in the novel) played in Clarice's change of principles.


You are probably right.
When I read the book, right after it was published, I was slightly flabbergasted. Not disgusted mind you, just disconcerted.
I remember calling my youngest daughter and asking what she thought of the ending. But she said that she put it down before reading ending, Which I interpreted as "I don't want to talk about it!]

Two years went by, and read the book several times again, and concluded it was probably the only possible ending.
Then the movie left me with the same sense of frustration I derive from every movie that seems unfinished, and doesn't have closure.

However, if an audience can sit and watch The house of the Thousand Corpses or something such, and accept it and like it. I don't see how they could object to the ending of Hannibal, the books.


"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."
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stillstanding   stillstanding is offline 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:20 am
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The books ending could have been used if the movie focused on Hannibals philisophical ideas just like the book did so we know where he was coming from. If the books ending in the current version of the film had been used it wouldnt have worked. Adding scenes for Hannibals philosophy and Margot Verger would add a considerable amount of time to the already 2hour film.

Also a big problem with Hannibal (movie) was it never really told us how he got from place to place. The book went into more detail about that, had the movie added those scenes that means more screen time.

To make the movie like the book in order to justify the books ending would make the movie too long. Using the books ending in the current version of the film would not work because the audience would not understand what Hannibal is doing and quite frankly would be shocked with how he treats Clarice.

House of a Thousand Corpses was a bloody horror flick that was pointless. Critics hated it and mostly everyone I talked to hated it. Had Hannibal been treated with realism and used the books endiing it would have had more of a psychological impact than House of a A Thousand Corpses ever did.

B


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
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I disagree. I think the film did focused on Hannibal Lecter psychologically (I am not sure what you mean under philosophy) and as such I see the film as a psychological study of Starling-Lecter relationship rather then a detective story of any kind or a horror movie.
I could not agree more. I must actually be twisted because, before this point came in discussion in other threads here, I had never considered the movie as a horror one. I was not even shocked by the brain dinner scene. Should I start worrying about my mental health ? Scratching

stillstanding wrote:
Also a big problem with Hannibal (movie) was it never really told us how he got from place to place. The book went into more detail about that, had the movie added those scenes that means more screen time.
I don't feel these scenes would have been necessary. They would have brought nothing to the movie and the tricks to pass the customs would just have been a repetition of what we see in other films. I don't feel this point is important to the Hannibal story.

I would have liked to see Margot in the movie because I liked her story in the book. I think that in some ways, Lecter help her free herself from something that has been weighting on her her whole life (her brother). Maybe not so different from the way Hannibal helps Clarice getting rid of The Institution. IMHO, Clarice has been abused by the institution at a very early age the same way Margot has been abused by Mason.

But, coming back to topic, I guess it would have been difficult (and screen time consuming) to make the 'non-reading' part of the audience understand who she was and what had happened.


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And btw, I don’t see it as a change of Starling’s principles, I see it as the result of the conflict of her morality with the morality of the institution that abandoned and betrayed her.
Same here.


Ciao,
Absolut.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:06 pm
 Post subject: Re: Hannibal Book Review
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stillstanding wrote:
I just finished Hannibal after a week of devouring all 544 pages.

For the first 450 pages I think the book followed the movie pretty well.....

-B


PS: To rectify a fault, the movie followed the book and it didn't followed quite well.


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stillstanding   stillstanding is offline 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:24 am
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I thought the movie was on line with the book up until the end. Obviously things were left out for timing purposes. Margots character was left out. And they did some of the scenes differently. But all in all the movie went pretty much online with the book. Up until the ending.

B


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:26 am
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The book is quite full frontal assault on the character's inner lives that something blissfully omitted for the sake of seeing the prints publish.

By doing so they have betrayed IMHO the essence of the novel thus, cannot in my opinion be a very successful portrayal. You don't see much, i rather they made a fateful and long miniseries than a movie in limbo.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:31 pm
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Well, a very productive exchange of ideas, that we have in this thread, I must say... Bravo
Sad that I only found this site a few days ago, and Iīm afraid I came too late to participate in it... Cry

Anyway, I would like to say (and hoping this thread would be revived!) that I first saw Hannibal the movie and then read the book, so my first impression was a sad feeling but at the same time I pretty understood it, because the idea I came up after watching the movie was that Clarice didnīt love Hannibal as much as he loved her. She was only obsessed by him, by hunting him and obsessed with her carreer and its failure... Undecided

When I read that the end of the book was totally different i went and read it... That gave me an enormous sense of fulffilment... The Clarice on the book, for me, has an almost preternatural connection with Hannibal, who also is different in the book, someone that is capable of the most pure love, but his "monster" estigma doesnīt let him show...
Following my line of thinking (I promise to shutt up myself in a moment), Clarice in the book has a deep attraction in the most cosmical way that it is possible for us to understand, her nature is drawn to Hannibalīs nature, since SOTL, itīs all there..., you can feel their predestination! Bravo Itīs one of the most beautifull masterpieces I have ever read! Love

As someone once said they are not twin souls, because thay are more than that: "they are the two parts of the same soul". I apologize to not give the credits of this quote to whom I should but unfortunately I donīt have the text with me right now... Sad

I apollogize also for my english, itīs not the best, I know, but it is certainly the best i can give to you my friends. I feel ashamed between such interesting and cultured people that I find here, but I had to post here and share my thoughts about this beautyfull characters and this wonderfull storie of pure love between two special people... Thank you and now Iīm definatelly going away... Wavey


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